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Bink61
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I have a problem with my username: I was registered as Bink61 in the Dutch league. As I wanted to register in the English International league as well, I tried to register with my Bink61 account but I couldn´t get it right, so I tried the Bink 212 name. At this point I thought I failed, but now seems I have two names mixed up in one competitor, and that would be me. In dutch tere´s no problem, in English I have the username Binlk61 but in the list where enter the results I stand under the name of Bink212. How can I get it all under the name Bink61?
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9/08 2016 01:59:30
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tydfil
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Kafe9, you insulted most of your opponents by saying they cheated and ignored advice from all quarters and over more than 1 season. Bye.
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6/08 2016 10:26:28
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kafe9
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My league is now finished and I am relieved to be unsubscribing. I was called ´ignorant´ here, among other insults. How dare a ´judge´ be so rude and abusive, and not feel required to apologise. Imagine if a player used such language towards another player. I do hope these comments remain so others can witness the treatment dished out to one player and they too may decide this is not always a very nice place to be.
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6/08 2016 10:04:07
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WLoH Int Judge
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Cheers Monty, it´s nice to have the support of a fair and experienced league member.
Kafe9, I assure you there is nothing personal with how we dealt with this issue. I hope you understand now and continue to enjoy the league however I respect your decision if you leave and I wish you all the best.
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27/07 2016 11:43:19
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Monty022
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Kafe9, you seem to think you are being singled out for harsh treatment but you´re not. Like everyone who either specifically accuses an opponent or a group of opponents (past and/or present) of cheating via the forum, you will be cautioned or warned not to do that and told to follow the established procedures if you have a genuine grievance. That´s exactly what happened here. I don´t understand how being told to follow the rules equates to bullying. Without rules, and someone to administer them, this site wouldn´t function as well as it does. Accept you crossed the line and move on (or move off if that is your want).
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27/07 2016 08:02:06
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WLoH Int Judge
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Kafe9, you chose to accuse others on a public forum so here it will stay. You are not targeted, you broke the rules and need to be addressed the same way any player would be. No claims have been made that you were issued a warning re exclusion after the first incident, we merely informed you of the rules and what is acceptable, I refer to this as a ´caution´.
Even though this league is supposed to be self explanatory and rely on members helping each other I have put a lot of effort into building a team of admins. They do an amazing job on a voluntary basis and we are all very lucky to have them. The help and advice available is plentiful and of a very high standard for a free of charge service in my opinion.
Your unreasonable and disrespectful behaviour had to be addressed and forcefully stopped if necessary. I have many responsibilities, little time spare and certainly have no interest in targeting a member randomly and for no reason. We are all here to provide a fun league and donate our time to help out. Our only motivation is to help provide enjoyment for others and ourselves in a WF league. If it was not necessary to tackle unacceptable behaviour we would be thrilled. This is the last thing I wish to use my time doing.
I see you have still not deactivated and are signed up for next season. If you would like help in changing that just ask.
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27/07 2016 00:05:43
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kafe9
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I will indeed be leaving this site as soon as my current league is finished (Ido not want to let down other players mid game).
You continue to target me personally here, when in my own post I mentioned no player by name and was merely responding to earlier posts, facts you continue to ignore. You have also ignored the information that when I first posted as a new member I did not know my way around the site and did not understand the protocols. I was not issued a warning of exclusion, as has been claimed, but that my general comment had been posted in the wrong place. I was not aware I was supposed to email the team any observations.
I stated in my post that I am no longer complaing. Perhaps expecting players never to seek some basic form of external help is too lofty an expectation. I do not regard these players as cheats at all but tha is up to the WLoH team. You ask how I would feel being accused of cheating - if I were I would feel admonished, if I weren´t, I would know I was not being referred to. As you admitted earlier, I apologised to those players who are simply better than me.
But how would you feel to be in my place, targetted on a public forum after what was a moderate and fair comment in response to others dealing with the same subject. There were so many other ways your problem with my post could have been dealt with. Why on earth was I not emailed, for example, or have it pointed out my post was not acceptable without issuing threats and using a tone of bullying? The response was both a shock and unexpected. For that I do indeed deserve an apology and you have failed to understand the impact of such behaviour if you do not.
I most certainly did not suggest a different approach to gathering information -I suggested a different approach towards players getting help may be considered. You have also accused me of being unreasonable, disrespectful, arrogant, threatening, a bully and ridiculous - all in one post! Those words are utterly unjustified and appalling, and those who know me would be taken aback by them. To shame a player in this way is disgraceful and I hope lessons will be learnt. Others will judge the tone of your exchange and may be deterred from making any criticisms themselves. I will not put up with bullying. In part my post was in response to an email I had just received from your team re an issue with a player in which I was not under any scrutiny. I did not prompt this - your team did. Had I been approached privately about my own post the context of it may have been better understood.
If you require me to view any respose to my post, please email (although I would prefer you not to) as after I deselect my account I will not be returning to this forum.
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26/07 2016 23:32:58
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WLoH Int Judge
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Kafe9, ok let us go into more detail with facts if you insist. In season 101 you said ´A hollow victory for those who repeatedly use non- dictionary words and cannot or refuse to supply their meanings.´ You were casting judgement on another player or players in your group. This is disrespectful and some players would find it insulting. When you win a group how would you feel if someone posted that? It is not reasonable to determine a cheat on one game you play with them and is often going to lead to bad feeling and arguments. It is simply not acceptable behaviour.
We were actually very lenient in addressing the issue with you. WLoH Int Assist wrote: ´Kafe9, send concerns to wlohint@gmail.com (screenshots of boards and comments on what you consider unfair) rather than airing on the forum or via WF chat please. For reference there´s no requirement to know the meaning of the words played. I know it can be frustrating if you believe someone to be cheating but it achieves nothing to voice it in the forum. Trust the process we have. More on the rules page.´
I find it disrespectful not only to the people you are accusing of cheating but also to my team and our systems that you have ignored that. I can´t locate any emails from you supplying us with information. You completely disregard what we said and have yet again behaved in an unreasonable and disrespectful way. You claim to be a player who tries to keep the games clean and fun. If you were you would of contacted me by email with evidence. You could actually be perceived as threatening and a bully by many players. Your claims are ironic.
You have the audacity to suggest another approach may be required without using the system we have in place. It is a system which gathers information so we can assess a player through many of their games. When we have enough evidence we then instigate a vote to gain the further insight and opinion of all opponents from the last two seasons. I have excluded many cheats using this process, it is civilised and fair.
I find it amazing you can snub that and have the arrogance to think you may accuse someone on only your opinion based on one game. Frankly your accusation that you are then being treated unfairly is ridiculous. When you join this league you are in effect agreeing to abide by the rules we specify. You ignore that, you think you know best and may disrespect everyone else on here.
It is you who owes an apology and not just one. You have been treated very fairly but have not listened. We will not tolerate your clearly unreasonable and ignorant behaviour and had no choice but to protect members from the insult you inflict. The warning was totally necessary.
If you can´t understand these simple principles and do not like the way this league is run I agree you should no longer participate. You can deactivate on the sign up page.
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25/07 2016 12:03:53
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kafe9
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Some well intended comments posted but please bear in mind I was only responding to comments already posted here and implying that more tolerance was a better option - I even avoided the title ´Cheating´ in favour of ´Getting Help´ but I was immediately threatened with expulsion, which I found shocking and heavy-handed. When I first joined I was advised about posting comments (which I do very rarely) in the correct place, which I had not grasped. I really do not recall being threatened with exclusion before in the manner it was done today.
I have been a decent, reliable, amicable and helpful (please check today´s emails, judges) player, I even donated, but now I cannot wait to finish the games in my league and leave.
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25/07 2016 09:06:58
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tydfil
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Ty judge...I confess I considered looking up a previous warning...but assumed it would have been mentioned; I was lazy and a vaccuum is often filled with a false assumption. Mea culpa and have given myself a slap. Won´t happen again aagh; ((
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25/07 2016 03:32:20
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WLoH Int Judge
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Excellent post Tydfil. Obviously us admins must stick to procedure and it is never personal. In cases where a particular player is not named a warning of exclusion for a repeat offence is not always necessary. Unfortunately kafe9 has been cautioned about this before so making them aware of the consequence for future accusations was very much needed.
Good post also captainkos :)
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25/07 2016 03:23:46
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Captainkos
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@tydfil. More eloquently put than I, as always ;)
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25/07 2016 03:22:56
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tydfil
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Where there was a x post if ever there was one captain:)
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25/07 2016 02:59:47
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tydfil
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Hi kafe9 I come in peace - please read me out:)
I am not going to take sides but I have a few comments/suggestions and hope all parties will consider them.
Firstly, it is not ok to accuse people of cheating in the forum. When a player says that most of the people they play are cheating that is a blanket accusation and certainly unacceptable. If I had been one of your opponents Kafe9 then I would have been right back at you.
All players should read the rules which do not allow public accusations and explain the procedure for emailing the judge. There is an exceptionally good post on the subject from captainkos - made on July 20th around 17.14 CET (you can scroll back) and under a thread ´cheating´. Informative, balanced and objective.
I am not criticising and the peace pipe is being passed but creating additional threads is not the way to go.
The wlohasst made statements that were valid but I also understand that you may have found them a little unexpected Kafe9; I truly understand that the comments didn´t ´make your day´.
I suggest that everyone takes time to think - education rather than castigation is often the best way to go? I again refer everyone to the post from captainkos.
I hope that you reconsider staying in the league Kafe9 and if you do pass the peace pipe on.
@the judge and wlohasst I hope you take no objection to my post - it has been made with the best of intentions.
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25/07 2016 02:57:51
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Captainkos
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@kafe9 I hope you don´t mind me commenting as someone independent and observing the convo. I don´t believe you´ve been singled out or bullied. You´ve been in the league longer than me and from what I´ve seen in the forum, if someone discusses cheating or makes accusations, a firm hand is always taken. If it wasn´t, where would it all end up? Everyone and everyone would be calling others cheats and it would destroy the spirit of the forum. I´m sure your comments were well meant but my advise is to take the rebuke on the chin and forget it.
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25/07 2016 02:31:45
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kafe9
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As others have posted comments re the integrity of some players I feel I have been singled out for trying to strike a balance between cheating and tolerance. Perhaps a different approach is required as it will aways go on.
A threat was indeed made in the first response to my post and I found that to be unnecessary and heavy-handed and I did feel bullied, however politely and diplomatically it was expressed. To your credit my posts have not been removed but an apology is clearly not forthcoming for the upset I have unfairly been subjected to today. I will complete the games in my current league to not let the other players down and then I will resign as I no longer feel welcome or comfortable here. Perhaps my donated tenner should be returned.
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25/07 2016 02:03:24
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WLoH Int Judge
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Apologies, I see the appropriate warning has already been given.
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25/07 2016 00:29:31
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WLoH Int Judge
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Kafe9, it is our job to address breaking of the rules and your accusation of feeling threatened or bullied is ridiculous. My colleague has responded to you in a polite and diplomatic way. In fact he has not given you the warning that I must now do which is that if accusations are made towards other members again you will no longer be welcome here. I have no intention to threaten or bully either, I feel it is only fair you are aware of the consequences should you wish to continue breaking the rules of this site.
I also think that your attitude is extremely unfair. If you do not use the system we have in place to deal with cheats how do you expect us to tackle the issue?
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25/07 2016 00:25:50
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kafe9
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You simply need to scan down to other recent posts. Giving a post a new title does not mean it hasn´t been triggered by other posts. I feel threatenied and bullied for voicing an observation others have shared. I have learned just to get on with playing scrabble, regardless of whether people are cheating or not - annoying but not that important. I think an apology is in order since the choice was made to humiliate me on an open forum.
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25/07 2016 00:14:18
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WLoH Int Assist
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Kafe9, your post does not seem to be "in response to other posts" because you started a brand new thread. You didn´t need to name names because you referred to "most of those I play". That is not okay. You´re very welcome to email us details of the other discussions that you refer to if you feel I´m being inconsistent.
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24/07 2016 21:43:21
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kafe9
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I am very, very disappointed at the response to my post as I was making an honest observation and in response to other posts here re the subject of cheating, which do not seem to have attracted a similar response. Since I did not name any players and would not do so on an open forum, I stand by my comments. I am one of the players trying to keep the games clean and fun.
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24/07 2016 21:09:28
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WLoH Int Assist
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Hi kafe9, for quite obvious reasons we don´t allow cheat allegations in the forum or via WF chat. Any repeat will see you excluded, which we don´t want to do so please take serious note of my warning. Posting outside of your group and apologising to better players does nothing to lessen your message - you´ve in essence accused most people you´ve played of cheating. If I were one of your opponents I´d potentially feel quite slighted. How would you feel? The processes we have in place to investigate cheating do work well, particularly when everybody cooperates. Posts like yours on the other hand can actually undermine our efforts.
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24/07 2016 20:26:06
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kafe9
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I have stopped complaining about suspected cheating as I am fairly sure most of those I play against use some aid, a simple letter sorter app or a more advanced aid.Some words used in games are so obscure. It is like playing against a robot and no fun. Of course there are times trial and error produces words a player has not met before and doesn´t know the meaning of. I think there are apps that can analyse a whole board, not just a string of letters - I have never used such help but it may explain some of my losses - well, that´s my excuse. Apologies to those who are just better players than me.
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24/07 2016 19:54:46
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